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Old 02-03-2009
 
#1
United States Chaos
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Default Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012802095.html

Quote:
The Federal Open Market Committee said it stands ready to buy up more mortgage-backed securities, could start buying long-term government bonds, and may take further steps to make loans more widely available.
The Federal Open Market Committee? The Earth is flat too!

Quote:
In its statement yesterday, the Fed indicated more openness to purchasing long-term government bonds, a step that should indirectly push down interest rates on mortgages and many corporate loans.

The central bank said it is "prepared to purchase longer-term Treasury securities if evolving circumstances indicate that such transactions would be particularly effective in improving conditions in private credit markets." That goes further than the Fed did in December, when it said it was "evaluating the potential benefits" of such actions but did not signify that such purchases were imminent.
So we're going to borrow money to buy Treasury securities (which we also owe money on) and then we're going to go to our magical money tree and come back and it will be all cool beans then!

You hear that? That's the sound of the country and the world going down the tubes for the next four years.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#2
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Default

I've given up on the possibility that the government or the people would be interested in destroying the source of our economie woes (the Federal Reserve). Now I think we should just do whatever is best for the average person in the short term. While in the long term it's ruining everyones wealth, since there is no alternative I think we should all get our free handouts while we can.
 
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Old 02-03-2009
 
#3
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Default

Is the economy even something that can be forced into stimulation? It seems to me that there isn't really anything in our control as far as the ups and downs of the economy are concerned. This is really showing that the Fed is reallllllly out of control now.
 
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Old 02-04-2009
 
#4
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Default

So, you are saying that our current plan of just throwing money at it until it goes away ISNT going to work?

Well...



damn....



I guess we are screwed then.
 

Take the power from the parties and vote independent in 2008.
 

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Old 02-08-2009
 
#5
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

What's your magical solution, Chaos?
 
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Old 02-08-2009
 
#6
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

The US government is out of control. What they are doing right now is sowing the seeds of complete disaster.

This is very troubling, but by no means unexpected.

The government's "job" is to attempt to solve problems. You can see the sentiment quite clear in p3nguin's post. The solution is to stop the root cause of all this ridiculousness: END THE FED.
 
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And according to this proper, and generally received meaning of the word, a free man, is he, that in those things, which by his strength and wit he is able to do, is not hindered to doe what he has a will to."

- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan.

So close... Yet so far.
 

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Old 02-09-2009
 
#7
United States Golgo 13
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaizen View Post
The US government is out of control. What they are doing right now is sowing the seeds of complete disaster.

This is very troubling, but by no means unexpected.

The government's "job" is to attempt to solve problems. You can see the sentiment quite clear in p3nguin's post. The solution is to stop the root cause of all this ridiculousness: END THE FED.
Anything short of dismantling the Fed and FRB can not solve the problem. It's impossible to do even in theory, much less practice.

The monetary system we have now is temporary at best. The question remaining is how it will go - either in a planned & rational initiative of our own undertaking, or a catastrophic meltdown from it's unsustainability. Given that we're focusig all of our efforts in making the problem worse, we can reasonably rule out the former.

We're employing big government and central banks to save us from the consequences created as a result of big government and central banks. We cannot escape this fruitless paradox, it would seem.



You cannot perpetually feed this debt monster. A collapse of the global monetary system is inevitable. Exponential growth is impossible to sustain. Anybody who understands arithmetic and growth will quickly arrive at this inescapable fact, but it looks like we'll have to collectively experience this the hard way before it will sink in to the collective consciousness.

"When was the last bubble that didn't pop? Never. It has never existed. All bubbles pop. All living things die. All paper currencies become worthless. All empires are destroyed. All politicians lie."

- Bill Bonner

The global financial system is naught but a bubble - albeit one that has been going for quite some time now. The longer the bubble continues the bigger it gets, the more likely it becomes to blow up, and all the more damage results from its bursting.
 

Last edited by Golgo 13; 02-09-2009 at 10:02 AM.
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"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight-of-hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers continue to create money and control credit."

- Josiah Charles, President of the Bank of England & 2nd richest man in Great Britain (1880-1941)
 

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Old 02-09-2009
 
#8
United States GenocideAlive
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo 13 View Post
The global financial system is naught but a bubble - albeit one that has been going for quite some time now. The longer the bubble continues the bigger it gets, the more likely it becomes to blow up, and all the more damage results from its bursting.
It's hard to take anyone seriously that starts using archaic language in the middle of writing on a forum. Doing you the favor, it'd help if you defined bubble and damage in ways that suggest a solution that will prevent bubbles and damage in the future. But considering you cannot suggest a means that won't result in near-catastrophic damage to our economy and trade, there's little to no impetus to do it ourselves as opposed to simply permitting it to happen.
 
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Old 02-09-2009
 
#9
United States The Hawaiian
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

I have a question what if Obama just came in and nationalized the Fed. He just walks in says "ok whatever debt the United States owes you, is cleared. We're also taking over all of your assets, and if you try to sell them I'm going to arrest you. In fact we're freezing all of your assets because we've designated the Fed banks as a terrorist organization."

Wouldn't that help us in the short term?

I say we burn these motherfuckers at the stake.
 
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Old 02-09-2009
 
#10
United States Golgo 13
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
It's hard to take anyone seriously that starts using archaic language in the middle of writing on a forum.
It's hard to take anyone seriously that starts complaining about the etymology of a single word in a post.

Quote:
Doing you the favor, it'd help if you defined bubble and damage in ways that suggest a solution that will prevent bubbles and damage in the future.
"Money as Debt" outlined several options for this, none of which required going to a gold standard or anything form of commodity which can be cornered, debased, and manipulated.

Quote:
But considering you cannot suggest a means that won't result in near-catastrophic damage to our economy and trade, there's little to no impetus to do it ourselves as opposed to simply permitting it to happen.
Either we have near-catastrophic damage from trying to replace our system or we have total-catastrophic damage from letting it progress to it's logical ends. I prefer the former.

Whatever we do, it's going to cause a lot of pain. Good medicine tastes bad, but you've got to swallow it. The best method would be to end the Fed/FRB, stop borrowing our nation's money supply at interest from central banks, and create a new currency. The old currency will be redeemable at some decided upon rate for new currency. The money supply will shrink by orders of magnitude, but the new money will have some actual decent purchasing power. Money will not be loaned into existence, so we won't end up in a situation where if all debts could be paid off then there would be no money left in the system like we have today where banks create money based on a promise to repay and it's impossible to satisfy the overall debt obligation which results in endless inflation chasing endless debt.

Since our monetary system is absolutely guaranteed to fail by design, and the longer we wait to dismantle it the bigger it gets and the more damage that it will cause when it achieves critical mass, then it behooves us to prematurely detonate the bomb before it reaches that point. We'll just have to suck up whatever damage it has in store for us, which is entirely a consequence from the failure of the old system.
 

Last edited by Golgo 13; 02-09-2009 at 09:46 PM.
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"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight-of-hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers continue to create money and control credit."

- Josiah Charles, President of the Bank of England & 2nd richest man in Great Britain (1880-1941)
 

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Old 02-09-2009
 
#11
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012802095.html



The Federal Open Market Committee? The Earth is flat too!



So we're going to borrow money to buy Treasury securities (which we also owe money on) and then we're going to go to our magical money tree and come back and it will be all cool beans then!

You hear that? That's the sound of the country and the world going down the tubes for the next four years.
Well, money is made out of plant matter. Saying it doesn't grow on trees might be correct technically, but really it does grow on trees.
 
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Old 02-09-2009
 
#12
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

What the fuck country in the world has a cotton tree?

furthermore
we will rein anarchy across the streets and it will be chaos and the capitalists with their pairasals falling onto cobble stone roads below them as we tear up the highways with our hands and our finger nails become dirty with hard tar and we let nature grow back in while we bang out the primal beat of nature onto the old highway signs with the road we have torn up.

^Real shit i heard from a real anarchist at an underground anarchist meeting. They first told me it was a rain forest benefit.
 
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Old 02-10-2009
 
#13
United States GenocideAlive
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo 13 View Post
It's hard to take anyone seriously that starts complaining about the etymology of a single word in a post.
I like the repetition as a theme of mockery but frankly it doesn't change the fact that you're using archaic terms like a 5th grader in a poem because you think you can borrow lofty language to loan your ideas a noble air. If your ideas were that great you wouldn't have to resort to using hundred year old dead words to manipulate readers' attitudes toward your writing. You're not Ben Franklin, you're a teenager parroting others' ideas.
Quote:
"Money as Debt" outlined several options for this, none of which required going to a gold standard or anything form of commodity which can be cornered, debased, and manipulated.
Money as Debt is also widely criticized as too simplistic and cultivating known disaster for purposes of avoiding potential disaster. Of course, your opinion that disaster is imminent has been stalled for around 100 years.
Quote:
Either we have near-catastrophic damage from trying to replace our system or we have total-catastrophic damage from letting it progress to it's logical ends. I prefer the former.
Your preferences are noted, in the meantime the fact that you have no scientific basis for supporting relative-levels of disaster is also noted. If changing over to fiat currency ends our nation as we know it, it's relatively clear why nobody is looking to "prematurely detonate the bomb" as you put it. Frankly there has been no incidence in modern history of such a manuever with which to make predictions, and I'm sure China would be just thrilled if we gave them the finger. I'll take management over anarchy anyday, and so will the majority of the 300M people living in the U.S. Don't like it? Move to your ideal country, and watch as their shit hits bottom with everybody else anyway. Or better yet, as they're conquered in the resulting anarchy, robbed, and left to sputter on their own ideals.
 
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Old 02-10-2009
 
#14
United States Golgo 13
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
I like the repetition as a theme of mockery but frankly it doesn't change the fact that you're using archaic terms like a 5th grader in a poem because you think you can borrow lofty language to loan your ideas a noble air.
Yeah, you're the last person that should be complaining about use of ornate vocabulary in posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenocideAlive View Post
You're not Ben Franklin, you're a teenager parroting others' ideas.
I never said I was, and you can spare us the whole being a condescending asshat routine as Chaos has long since wore that gimmick out.

Quote:
Money as Debt is also widely criticized as too simplistic and cultivating known disaster for purposes of avoiding potential disaster.
What "known disaster" is it proposing? Dismantling the current financial system?

The damage from the collapse of our financial system, whether due to being dismantled intentionally or collapsing under the suffocating weight of it's own patent unsustainability, is absolutely the fault of establishing such a system and letting it get out of hand in the first place. We wouldn't be facing these prospects if we didn't implement such a retarded financial structure to begin with.

Quote:
Of course, your opinion that disaster is imminent has been stalled for around 100 years.
The entire global financial system nearly imploded a few weeks ago and we haven't even started to experience the true extent of this mess yet.

Quote:
Frankly there has been no incidence in modern history of such a manuever with which to make predictions, and I'm sure China would be just thrilled if we gave them the finger.
It's what we're doing right now. If the bailouts work (they can't and they won't but let's assume they somehow did) then all those dollars China has been holding will become worthless as all this money percolates it's way through the system, which is probably why they've been considering dumping our treasuries and buying gold which will trigger the dollar devaluation frenzy before that even happens.

Quote:
I'll take management over anarchy anyday, and so will the majority of the 300M people living in the U.S.
Trying to salvage our current monetary system will lead to it's collapse. The system is designed at root to ultimately hit a wall and collapse. The very structure of it leads to ultimate financial meltdown. It's a grow or die system, and we live in a world of limits. Either the fundamental limits will magically disappear or the economy will hit the wall of those limits. Anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together would bet on the latter.
 

Last edited by Golgo 13; 02-10-2009 at 02:05 PM.
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"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight-of-hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers continue to create money and control credit."

- Josiah Charles, President of the Bank of England & 2nd richest man in Great Britain (1880-1941)
 

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Old 02-10-2009
 
#15
United States GenocideAlive
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Default Re: Are These People Insane? Oh Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgo 13 View Post
Yeah, you're the last person that should be complaining about use of ornate vocabulary in posts.
I never complained your vocabulary was ornate, I claimed it was antiquated. Intellectual dishonesty does not become you.
Quote:
What "known disaster" is it proposing? Dismantling the current financial system?
Just tell me, outright, if you're going to sit there like DE and pretend that you don't know that dismantling the current financial system will involve far-reaching repercussions of which you have no idea as to the true scope or scale. Just tell me, so I can know whether or not I'm wasting my time.
Quote:
The damage from the collapse of our financial system, whether due to being dismantled intentionally or collapsing under the suffocating weight of it's own patent unsustainability, is absolutely the fault of establishing such a system and letting it get out of hand in the first place. We wouldn't be facing these prospects if we didn't implement such a retarded financial structure to begin with.

The entire global financial system nearly imploded a few weeks ago and we haven't even started to experience the true extent of this mess yet.
That was a great rant but unfortunately not poignant because you spew it every time you think you can drag the topic into it, and not relevant because the adoption of this system was not done by anyone alive today. This is a complete red herring.
Quote:
It's what we're doing right now. If the bailouts work (they can't and they won't but let's assume they somehow did) then all those dollars China has been holding will become worthless as all this money percolates it's way through the system, which is probably why they've been considering dumping our treasuries and buying gold which will trigger the dollar devaluation frenzy before that happens.
The bailouts, whatever their original intention, have morphed into an entirely new creature. What the bailouts were initially designed to do vs. what they are now is miles apart. They are fast turning from an "economic" issue to a de facto means in which the government budgets with little to no oversight under a ridiculous premise that isn't fooling anyone.
Quote:
Trying to salvage our current monetary system will lead to it's collapse. The system is designed at root to ultimately hit a wall and collapse. The very structure of it leads to ultimate financial meltdown. It's a grow or die system, and we live in a world of limits. Either the fundamental limits will magically disappear or the economy will hit the wall of those limits. Anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together would bet on the latter.
And your proposed solution(s) that you're mimicking from the video you watched all propose that the collapse from "fixing" the system is worth avoiding the collapse from the system itself. I don't know how or why you're arriving at the conclusion that one collapse is magically better than another but I'll be damned if I accept some thought terminating cliche about medicine or bombs in place of reasoning and science.

Prove to me conclusively that one collapse is significantly better than another and I'll go along. Continue your argumentiam ad infinitum at your peril, I won't continue dignifying someone repeating the same "fact" that anarchy and chaos is better than anarchy and chaos.
 
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