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Old 01-31-2009
 
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Default How to make lift-off viable?

In SC1 flying buildings usually serve little purpose. Usually for occasional unorthodox plays utilizing proxy barracks/factory, using them as spotters for tanks and being able to build an expo safely in you main.

However, doesn't Blizzard want to aim for having every ability/unit have viability? Outside of add-on swapping how could lift-off be turned into a truly viable strategy? As much as possible you'd want you building producing and airborne structures cannot build.

Why not allow production buildings allow transport of some of its units like how the CC holds 5 SCVs? Maybe an upgrade that allows production buildings to build airborne? I

Is there a way to promote aggressive base movement for the Terrans? Could salvage be used in conjunction? Maybe aggressive base construction would be the counter to the Warp Ins and Nydus Worms/Creep? Would it also add macro to the terran?
 

Last edited by flavormanIII; 01-31-2009 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 01-31-2009
 
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I think in SC2 they're making the buildings slightly faster and the ability to carry SCVs in the CC is quite a big deal. Another thing is they added the multi-add-on so lifting off and reconfiguring your base strategy will be a big deal for terrans
 
 

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Old 01-31-2009
 
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'Agreed' to both posts. I believe Blizz's tweaks to liftoff will allow it to be used much more aggressively in SC2 and the fact that Tech/Reactors can be swapped will also give liftoff another use. One concern I have is whether swapping labs/reactors via liftoff will become useless/redundant at some point in the metagame when its easier to simply build another addon rather than lifting off for it. It is at this point that the liftoff mechanic becomes more similar to its SC1 carnation. IFF (if and only if) the use of liftoff for addon swapping is significantly reduced in the mid-late game, then I would like to see something else done to buff the mechanic a little, to make it a viable and continuously useful mechanic at all tech levels. Perhaps an upgrade(s) for the liftoff machanic, that allow the player to invest in/explore the nomadic/transient nature of the terrans and apply it to the battlefield.
 
 

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Old 01-31-2009
 
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I agree that lift-off could serve a more interesting role and be fun while we are at it, but its way too hard to balance to make it viable yet not over-powering.

here is a nice idea though:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...topic_id=86992
 
 

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Old 01-31-2009
 
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wtf? terran can build their stuff anywhere they are able to build entire bases in there main base and then just fly them out into an already by towers and sensortowers secured expo bringing additional 5 scv with em i mean wtf this is a fucking big deal already. just look at the BR.
 
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according "macro mechanics"
question:
do you consider it fun being disturbed from what you actually did, by perhaps some kind of timer, you set up, in order to remind you, of having to click a few units, in order to be competive?

I call it a annoying disturbance, means no, it is the exact opposite of having fun.
 

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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Seriously, do you have to sound like you're PMSing every time you read about something you don't like? Chill out.
 
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Old 02-01-2009
 
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I feel the old Starbase should be brought back. Being able to creat the units right there on the spot was really cool.

And why not allow the Barracks and such to be able to build the basic units while in the air. Then when they land they can let them out. Since it's only the basic units (Marine & Hellion). It shouldn't be too overpowering. and it would be in line with the Command Center. Making the Terren a little more mobile and ready to defend.
 

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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
I feel the old Starbase should be brought back. Being able to creat the units right there on the spot was really cool.

And why not allow the Barracks and such to be able to build the basic units while in the air. Then when they land they can let them out. Since it's only the basic units (Marine & Hellion). It shouldn't be too overpowering. and it would be in line with the Command Center. Making the Terren a little more mobile and ready to defend.

Maybe you'll like the chages I made to InRaged's idea then? ;]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=3

Last post.
 
 

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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Originally Posted by MaybenextTime View Post
Maybe you'll like the chages I made to InRaged's idea then? ;]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=3

Last post.

I like the updates to the Barracks. It only makes sense that it can still build why it flies.

As for the other ideas. I wasn't too hot on those. They seem kind of excessive. Being able to build units while on the move is more of an advantage than the original poster may have truly measured. And more make the game to unbalanced toward Terrans.

Most buildings terrans build will be in their main base. Being able to move the production building around to different expansions. Or to enemy bases is powerful within it's own right. And the risk/reward balance is good. Since you can lose an expensive building.
 
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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Why would it be imbalanced? Protoss has Warp-In and all they need is a pylon in the location. Zerg Have Nydus worms which is just as mobile. If anything Terran buildings are more vulnerable in front lines compared to pylons or worms.
 
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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Yes, you can lose expensive buildings AND a lot of production time. This is too much of a disadvantage, hence you don't see any such strategies in BW.

My suggestions/changes to InRaged's ideas make relocating buildings by Terran much easier, gives plenty more incentive to do so, but at the same time allows the enemy to disable or even kill those very buildings much more easily (by simply destroying the Lift-off Module).

Also, what ideas exactly are you 'not too hot on'? What suggestions would you suggest?

I think the secondary roles are far from excessive. They're very straightforward.
 
 

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Old 02-01-2009
 
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If you can lift and produce units in the same time, you loose the game balance.

Becouse if some zealot or other unit is attacking your barrack you only need to lift and make some marines, then you down the barrack and you left the marines and lift again. Is not fair.
If you wanna keep producing you need to risk something.
 
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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Your opponent can simply kill the Lift-off Module... Especially when your Barracks is in the air, and proceed to prevent you from landing, causing it to explode.
 
 

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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
I like the updates to the Barracks. It only makes sense that it can still build why it flies.
than why have them on the ground at all?
 
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Old 02-01-2009
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelLestat View Post
If you can lift and produce units in the same time, you loose the game balance.

Becouse if some zealot or other unit is attacking your barrack you only need to lift and make some marines, then you down the barrack and you left the marines and lift again. Is not fair.
If you wanna keep producing you need to risk something.
That would be true concern, if game was played this way, but honestly, why would Zealot ever attack Barrack? Even in BW? Unless building is outside the main, there is always better Targest than Barrack which can be easily repaired. And if it's outside the main, then that's exactly the point of the suggestion.

And I tell you what's unfair. What's really unfair is when Protoss builds one single Pylon at your entrance and then spawns reinforcement as if all his Gateways were Proxy, and if you manage to fend him off all what he loses is 100 minearls which is just as much money as one zealot.
If you're going to argue that this is enough risk for Protoss, then I'm going to argue that losing benefits provided by Add-ons is enough risk for Terran.
 
 

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