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Old 09-20-2008
 
#1126
United States Kassad
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Well, seeing that since the inception of the Federal Reserve, our dollar has lost 95% of its value...

In all honesty, no. We can't just deflate our currency and pray that all of our other problems will just fade away. Our government spending is out of control, but printing money out of thin air is a heavy contributor to our past, present and soon to be future economic turbulence in our nation.


 

Last edited by Kassad; 09-20-2008 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 09-21-2008
 
#1127
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Well the fact that the dollar is a global currency and there is a huge amount abroad, printing money in the States is not as disastrous as you'd imagine. You're taxing the people abroad with dollar reserves. Meaning Americans have to pay less taxes than they'd actually have to considering the services.

This will come to an end though when people start dumping dollars, because they don't believe in they have any value.
 
 

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Old 09-21-2008
 
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Originally Posted by Kassad View Post
Still, the corporate welfare state continues to show big companies that if they get large enough, they can control the government and just get a bailout if things get too harsh. Well, I'll be over here stockpiling some gold and silver.
"High five! Anyone? Anyone?"

- Stewie

Yeah, that's about the size of it. If you can descend into the financial darkness on a colossaly epic scale, the government will subsidize your failure in a desperate last-ditch effort to stave off the economic apocalypse by mortgaging the future, thereby insuring that the impending crunch will be all that much worse when it finally does hit.

At any rate, get ready for massive dollar devaluation.
 
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Old 09-21-2008
 
#1129
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Amusing. Chaos is afraid of other rising superpowers, it seems. Still, we fail to address the current issues at hand, such as domestic and foreign terror groups. Well, I suppose we 'addressed' them by continuing to do exactly what irritates them and makes them hate us. All the while, we fail to secure our borders and manage a sensible foreign policy.
You're a barely tolerable jackass. There is nothing fearful about wanting to keep international rivalries inside meeting rooms and away from the waves of the western Pacific. It's better business.

With it now being seven years and counting since there was a mass-casualty terrorist attack on the continental United States, I fail to see how we have failed to address domestic or foreign terrorist groups. Maybe you could explain.

Maybe you could also explain why we should be in the business of appeasing war criminals. "Stop making them mad!" isn't an argument, it's a desperate wail. We're the United States, they run around in 30 year old jeeps, blow up marketplaces, and live in caves. They're not in a position to be demanding appeasement from us.

Show us how the borders are not being secured with illegal border crossings down and record numbers of illegal immigrants leaving the US voluntarily or involuntarily.

Our allegedly insensible foreign policy finds us with more allies and weaker enemies that at any time since before World War II, so I guess the opinion of some random Frenchman is more important than the opinion of his president. (Hint: that opinion isn't "let's move away from the US diplomatically")

If I was interested in the opinion of homophobes and anti-semites I'd go to ummah.com, I don't need a link to another nest of it (Lew Rockwell) thanks.

If you look at the numbers countries like Germany, France, Canada, Israel, Belgium, Italy and Japan have national debt much much higher than America's as a percentage of their GDP, and most of them have been that way for decades. They haven't gone under. The debt as the instrument of our society's demise is pure fearmongering from a lunatic fringe.

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At any rate, get ready for massive dollar devaluation.
Judging from DM's past predictions, I'd advise everyone to expect a rising dollar for some time to come.
 

Last edited by Chaos; 09-21-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 09-21-2008
 
#1130
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So... destructive foreign and domestic policies, which have come to bite us in the present as shown by our current crisis, are not even issues to you? It's incomprehensible how you fail to fathom our current situation. A good amount of our military budget is completely unnecessary. We aren't threatened by anyone and our out of control military spending is driving our debt higher. The empire cannot be sustained. Anyway, when were there any other massive terror attacks on our soil? Pearl Harbor maybe? Your ignorance is showing, since one of Bin Laden's prime reasons for supporting attacks and Jihad on us was our forces presence in Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying we appease anyone. I'm saying that if we sit down, act mature and realize that the reason they hate us is because we intrude on their affairs and on their lands, maybe we could make this nation safer for you and me.

Just because border crossings are 'down' doesn't mean that it isn't happening on large scale. We're around, what now? 11 million illegal immigrants who feed off our welfare, our programs and our education, often times not paying proper taxes and bills? Yeah... what?

Our insensible foreign policy, again, has driven us into debt. We're funding a military state when we frankly do not need to. We have massive weaponry stockpiled that could destroy this place many times over. Our navy is unmatched. Our air force is unmatched. I have no problem with supporting a strong national defense, but why don't we become aggressive when someone is aggressive towards us, instead of hopping into useless and unjustified conflicts?

Minimalizing the message. The usual. Well played. Still, you again fail to realize that none of them have gone under because none of them are trying to police the world. We are trying to police the world and with recent executive orders allowing attacks on Pakistan and our ridiculous fear of Iran, it looks like we're going to be babysitting a few more hours tonight. But heed! Of course, Chaos, the Nostradamus of Blizzforums has arrived! It's funny that you accuse Golgo of making wild predictions, when you were the one who scoffed at the idea of the Democrats winning Congress, Saddam not having weapons, Iraq not being connected to 9/11 and so on. Ignorance is bliss.
 
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Old 09-21-2008
 
#1131
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It doesn't appear that Chaos has noticed that treasury bills rates are about zero, as in nothing, which means the financial system is in a state of disintregration; and that the dollar is rapidly being modified from being backed by the full faith and credit of the US (indirectly through being backed by Treasury bills) to be backed by nebulous second-level derivative mortgage securities.

The prognosis for inflation in the present condition is bleak, and the most unlikely time in history for commodities to 'bust'.

Alternatively you could disregard all of that and bank on Chaos' proven track record.
 
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Old 09-21-2008
 
#1132
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So... destructive foreign and domestic policies, which have come to bite us in the present as shown by our current crisis, are not even issues to you?
They aren't cause to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and they aren't the end of days. So no, I am not a hysterical chicken little.

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It's incomprehensible how you fail to fathom our current situation.
I understand it far better than you do, because I get my information from reputable sources and not an anti-semite and homophobe like Lew Rockwell.

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A good amount of our military budget is completely unnecessary.
All of our military budget is completely necessary.

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We aren't threatened by anyone and our out of control military spending is driving our debt higher.
Our entitlement programs are driving the debt higher far more than military spending is.

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The empire cannot be sustained.
Spare me your fringe lunacy.

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Anyway, when were there any other massive terror attacks on our soil? Pearl Harbor maybe?
Oklahoma City? The Millenium plot? The first World Trade Center bombing?

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Your ignorance is showing, since one of Bin Laden's prime reasons for supporting attacks and Jihad on us was our forces presence in Saudi Arabia.
Are you serious with this? You know I know that, jackass. Osama bin Laden does not represent the country of Saudi Arabia by the way.

Quote:
I'm not saying we appease anyone. I'm saying that if we sit down, act mature and realize that the reason they hate us is because we intrude on their affairs and on their lands, maybe we could make this nation safer for you and me.
Or maybe that's called appeasement. Oh wait yes that is what it's called. Tell me, why is Osama bin Laden in a position to deserve negotiations? What nation does he represent? Where is his legal authority? He is a war criminal. His opinion has no legitimacy whatsoever. His only legitimacy comes from his ability to kill people. By that logic, the position of the US is far more legitimate than his, since we have far more destructive power than he does.

I'm saying we sit down, act mature, and not throw away a thousand years of legal precedent to appease a war criminal with no legal authority to represent anything other than himself and his compatriot war criminals. Osama bin Laden is not in charge of Saudi Arabia. I don't care if he wants to kill Americans because we have soldiers in the Middle East. It isn't his fucking affair. It's the affair of the governments of the Middle East.

You don't get to commit war crimes and then be rewarded with being appeased because you're the self-appointed arbiter of what is right and wrong for a patch of sand dunes, sorry.

Quote:
Just because border crossings are 'down' doesn't mean that it isn't happening on large scale. We're around, what now? 11 million illegal immigrants who feed off our welfare, our programs and our education, often times not paying proper taxes and bills? Yeah... what?
So you're not satisfied with clear progress? Well click your heels together little girl and wish for it to be magically fixed instantly.

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Our insensible foreign policy, again, has driven us into debt.
No it hasn't.

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We're funding a military state when we frankly do not need to.
Yeah the US is a military state. Your real colors are showing.

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We have massive weaponry stockpiled that could destroy this place many times over. Our navy is unmatched. Our air force is unmatched. I have no problem with supporting a strong national defense, but why don't we become aggressive when someone is aggressive towards us, instead of hopping into useless and unjustified conflicts?
I don't consider any of them useless and unjustified, so I can't answer your question. Whenever we do get into a useless and unjustified conflict I'll give you an answer, but sadly your opinion is not fact.

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Minimalizing the message. The usual. Well played. Still, you again fail to realize that none of them have gone under because none of them are trying to police the world.
All of them spend about the same percentage of their GDP on their militaries as we do.

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We are trying to police the world and with recent executive orders allowing attacks on Pakistan and our ridiculous fear of Iran, it looks like we're going to be babysitting a few more hours tonight.
You want us to be aggressive towards countries that are aggressive towards us, but then you scoff at Iran. You are obviously ignorant of the last 30 years of history concerning the tens of thousands of people - and hundreds, possibly thousands - of Americans Iran has killed unprovoked.

Pakistan refuses to go after al-Qaeda and Taliban on their side of the Afghan border, we're going to do it for them. If Pakistan wants to lose the US as an ally and dissolve into civil war that will ruin the country for decades, that's up to them.

Quote:
But heed! Of course, Chaos, the Nostradamus of Blizzforums has arrived! It's funny that you accuse Golgo of making wild predictions, when you were the one who scoffed at the idea of the Democrats winning Congress, Saddam not having weapons, Iraq not being connected to 9/11 and so on. Ignorance is bliss.
Did the Democrats win Congress? You couldn't tell it by looking at what they've accomplished. Saddam wasn't violating the terms of the Persian Gulf War ceasefire? That's why we found all that equipment hidden away. Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism? That's why Iraqi intelligence agents were running around the world trying to hire terrorists and giving money to Palestinian and Filipino terrorists and giving terrorists like Abu Nidal safe harbor in Baghdad and why the only member of the 1993 WTC bombing cell who escaped fled to... Iraq.

Ignorance, in your case, most definitely isn't bliss. You're very concerned about so many things you don't know anything about.

Quote:
It doesn't appear that Chaos has noticed that treasury bills rates are about zero, as in nothing, which means the financial system is in a state of disintregration; and that the dollar is rapidly being modified from being backed by the full faith and credit of the US (indirectly through being backed by Treasury bills) to be backed by nebulous second-level derivative mortgage securities.
Who are you going to believe? A repeated paranoid liar like DM, or people like Eamonn Butler? I'll take Eamonn Butler.

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The prognosis for inflation in the present condition is bleak, and the most unlikely time in history for commodities to 'bust'.
Quote:
Alternatively you could disregard all of that and bank on Chaos' proven track record.
Alternatively you could disregard your lying eyes where oil is down 33% from its peak and gold is down almost 20% from its peak.

Honestly DM how you manage to say things that are not only false, but false where it takes 5 seconds to find the truth, is beyond me.
 

Last edited by Chaos; 09-21-2008 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 09-21-2008
 
#1133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
...with illegal border crossings down...
This doesn't make sense to me. Illegal border crossings are down? Down from what? Am I supposed to believe there are people counting illegal immigrants walking over our border in the same way people are counting salmon and sturgeon coming through Bonneville Dam on the Mighty Columbia?

Down from what? How do we know how many illegals are coming through that we don't see? If we know these crossings are down, that implies we can account for the immigrants who do cross. If we can account for the ones that do cross, isn't the idea to keep them out, not count them and say "well that's one fewer than last night"?

It seems to me that the idea of saying illegal border crossings is down is a bunch of bullshit. I'd suggest any numbers you get from official sources promoting that idea are heavily padded, if not completely fabricated, in order for those responsible to keep receiving their paychecks.
 

Last edited by Kaervek; 09-21-2008 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 09-21-2008
 
#1134
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Yeah because you can't imagine a way to estimate the numbers that means there must be no way.

Like, for example, watching how many people are coming up from the south into Mexican "shelters" that enterprising Mexicans set up near the border as way stations for people trying to get into the US. Those places aren't hidden. They're big business in Mexico. The numbers of northbound people in those places are fewer than in previous years. That's one way they estimate the numbers.

They also track how many people they catch trying to cross illegally - that's down too. And in major destinations for immigrant labor, there hasn't been a glut of available laborers, so it's unlikely that more people are escaping detection.

Things like that are how they can tell.
 
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Old 09-22-2008
 
#1135
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Originally Posted by Chaos
Or maybe that's called appeasement. Oh wait yes that is what it's called. Tell me, why is Osama bin Laden in a position to deserve negotiations? What nation does he represent? Where is his legal authority? He is a war criminal. His opinion has no legitimacy whatsoever. His only legitimacy comes from his ability to kill people. By that logic, the position of the US is far more legitimate than his, since we have far more destructive power than he does.

I'm saying we sit down, act mature, and not throw away a thousand years of legal precedent to appease a war criminal with no legal authority to represent anything other than himself and his compatriot war criminals. Osama bin Laden is not in charge of Saudi Arabia. I don't care if he wants to kill Americans because we have soldiers in the Middle East. It isn't his fucking affair. It's the affair of the governments of the Middle East.

You don't get to commit war crimes and then be rewarded with being appeased because you're the self-appointed arbiter of what is right and wrong for a patch of sand dunes, sorry.
So if Osama Bin Laden demanded that we should be happy and kind towards each other I guess we should stop doing that by virtue of the fact that it's not what Osama wanted right?

Most people in the Middle East think we meddle too much. Just because their undemocratic governments (Saudi Arabia) say it's cool doesn't mean it's necessarily in our best interests.
 
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Old 09-22-2008
 
#1136
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You guys sound like politicians running for office against each other. Past records on predictions do not logically affect pure arguments. Y'all should analyzing the points of your arguments, not going on a tangent on who was wrong and when.
 
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Old 09-22-2008
 
#1137
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Alternatively you could disregard your lying eyes where oil is down 33% from its peak and gold is down almost 20% from its peak.
Nevermind that the overall trend has been firmly upward. just like I've been saying it would be all this time.



Oil price history:



When you take a look at the big picture, it's clear who is in the right on this one.
 

Last edited by Golgo 13; 09-23-2008 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 09-22-2008
 
#1138
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Yeah but 1 week ago it went down by like 10 cents so doesn't that mean you're wrong?
 
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Old 09-23-2008
 
#1139
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Originally Posted by Donald Rumsfeld View Post
So if Osama Bin Laden demanded that we should be happy and kind towards each other I guess we should stop doing that by virtue of the fact that it's not what Osama wanted right?
What exactly do you mean by "demand" followed by "be kind and happy towards one another"? Assuming he wanted this, how would he go about demanding such things? Plotting massive attacks against our nation and its allies?

Oh wait, Osama never demanded anything of the sort. His long list of demands included more than just removing our troops from "muslim lands". He also "demanded" we convert to Islam. You wish to be a muslim? Because if you're not one, you're not meeting his demands, you're provoking him. He also demands us to not be "immoral", engage in sexual activities outside of marriage or alcohol consumpton. If we don't meet his demands, we're provoking him.
Osama claims we "Exploit" our women as sex objects. We better round them up and treat them like cattle, right? If we don't Osama will not be pleased and we won't be "happy and kind towards each other".
Why does Osama not want our troops stationed in Saudi Arabia? Because we're "oppressing" his right to oppress others?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Rumsfeld
Most people in the Middle East think we meddle too much. Just because their undemocratic governments (Saudi Arabia) say it's cool doesn't mean it's necessarily in our best interests.
It is not in our best interest to have Osama Bin Laden running Saudi Arabia.
 
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Old 09-23-2008
 
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United States Golgo 13
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Originally Posted by Donald Rumsfeld View Post
Yeah but 1 week ago it went down by like 10 cents so doesn't that mean you're wrong?
I guess so.

In other news:


 
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"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight-of-hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers continue to create money and control credit."

- Josiah Charles, President of the Bank of England & 2nd richest man in Great Britain (1880-1941)
 

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