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Old 01-22-2009
 
#16
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Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Yeah thats another thing with 1v1 guys I don't like. I'm open to trying new maps and I dont get into the politics of 1v1 (GG NO RE, OWNED, 1V1? DODGE). If somebody challenge me to 1v1 and they make a map I never played before (pretty much all the iccup) I will still play. Most 1v1 people I met won't do that, they will play with their friends first and make sure they are comfortable then go play 1v1 on it.

I'll play any map with anyone and I like new maps, even if I never played it before. But for some people that doesn't fit in and they won't play maps that they haven't watched 100 pro replays on before.
I've noticed the complete opposite.

Most people I play 1v1 against are willing to play on any well-tested map (i.e. most of the iccup maps) and if they're friends we'll even play stupid blizzard maps, or custom made maps.

But whenever I play with 3v3 players it's always hunters. Whenever I play with 2v2 players it's only ever python or LT (use to be luna too, but now that's rare). Unless, again, I'm playing with friends.

And stop the idiotic "1v1 guy" bashing/trolling. Basically you're playing newbie teenagers, no surprise they act like dickheads and suck at the game. Everyone can see through your pathetic attempts to feel superior/smarter and justify your inability to beat a terrible player at 1v1, but no one really cares.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
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X_X everyone's so hostile....

Good post mr spacedominator, you too mr neverborn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reogi
I don't see how you can be "bad" if you can become competent at high levels?
That's where are the mindgames are~
that depends what you guys are considering to be high level? Is B+ A- considered a high level? There are people like that who offer help saying "watch lots of replays, learn bo's, practice practice practice" which is what he's talking about. The game is so well defined that counters and counterbuilds are probably just another reaction to these players. It's not really brain-inticing, mind-provoking, whatever you want to call it, like it was 7-8 years ago.

I didn't play in the pre-replay era, but I can understand what neverborn means.
 

Last edited by SuperKiller; 01-22-2009 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#19
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Well I'm only being hostile to the OP for his ignorant posts.

Unlike spacedominator's post which is very well thought out and logical.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
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Starcraft isn't as fun for me today as it was 5 or 6 years ago, because the game has been mastered to such a degree by so many people. RTS games are more fun for me when they're new, and strength is defined as much by your strategical sense as your experience and technical skill. I didn't get to play SC when it was new, but (even though this isn't the best example of a strategy game) I played War3 through both betas, and I enjoyed being able to experiment with different combinations of heros/units and still have success against other decent players. Once the strategy in a game has been investigated and understood to such a degree on a large scale, "bad" players (like those that cannot adapt themselves to 2v2 because they've memorized the game but do not really understand it) can become competent even at high levels.
I know precisely where you're coming from as well Neverborn. I was truly blessed to be one of only 1000 people to be a part of the original StarCraft Beta, and for all of the great memories that I had of playing StarCraft during the beta, it also took a lot of that "it" factor out of the game. I played the game literally non stop for about three months back in 7th grade and I had a ton of fun doing precisely what you said. My record was horrendous during the beta because I spent a lot of my time just experimenting with the game, finding different combinations and seeing what could work and what wouldn't work. However, then when the game was released and my friend base started to get the game, things sort of changed for me for a while. They were testing things and getting great excitement out it, while I just went, "been there done that." So for a long while after the beta test, I really didn't focus as much as becoming a great player of the game as much as just being one that would consistently continue to experiment and to try new strategies just for the sake of trying them. When I interviewed Freak about our time back at StarCraft Legacy for my 10 year celebration of BGN, we talked about this a quite a bit and I always admired him for being a great player, while I think he looked at me as one of those players that were consistently willing to try to out think their opponent instead of trying to out macro their opponent. I'll admit, I think that's a lot of the reason why I prefer 2v2 personally as well to this day as you had more different combinations occuring and the game for the most was more mental.

Now after 10 years, I also understand where you're thinking in terms of your "bad" players. In a sense, I don't really view them as "bad players" as much as I view them as "cookie cutter" players. To me, these are players that just base their entire game plan off a pro-gamer strategy and expect it to work for them every time. The infamous, "If Savior can do it, then surely I can too." Sure, it's good to base a game style based off of a single set-up, but the key to being really good in StarCraft or ultimately in anything in my mind lies in the way that you can adapt to a game instead of using one strategy that supposedly will win a game. Again, using a sports analogy, you have two even teams on the field, what's going to seperate them? Fitness, mental toughness, etc.. However, I think in a lot of ways this is part of the reason why I'm still so hooked to the game. Back when I began playing, I wasn't focused as much on being a solid 1v1 player working on solid macro, solid micro, etc... Now though, I'm trying to do things that are more standardized by then throwing in these little tricks to try to disrupt these so called "cookie cutter" players. To each their own though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post
Yeah thats another thing with 1v1 guys I don't like. I'm open to trying new maps and I dont get into the politics of 1v1 (GG NO RE, OWNED, 1V1? DODGE). If somebody challenge me to 1v1 and they make a map I never played before (pretty much all the iccup) I will still play. Most 1v1 people I met won't do that, they will play with their friends first and make sure they are comfortable then go play 1v1 on it.

I'll play any map with anyone and I like new maps, even if I never played it before. But for some people that doesn't fit in and they won't play maps that they haven't watched 100 pro replays on before.
If this becomes an issue for you, join op bgn or blizzforums for games or go to Iccup. Every single person playing the game of SC has a different reason for playing it. If someone is only comfortable playing 1v1's on LT all day and they're happy with that, so be it. You're not going to change the view of the entire StarCraft public, trust me. Just think about all of the anti-bgh and anti-hunters talk that we've had over the years, has it made a bit of difference? Nope.

However, I do understand one viewpoint about those who don't play the new maps. If they are playing a game on a ladder system where the games "count", then most would be apt to play games on maps they feel comfortable playing and practice on their own on the maps they aren't. Just the way it is.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKiller View Post
X_X everyone's so hostile....

Good post mr spacedominator, you too mr neverborn.



that depends what you guys are considering to be high level? Is B+ A- considered a high level? There are people like that who offer help saying "watch lots of replays, learn bo's, practice practice practice" which is what he's talking about. The game is so well defined that counters and counterbuilds are probably just another reaction to these players. It's not really brain-inticing, mind-provoking, whatever you want to call it, like it was 7-8 years ago.

I didn't play in the pre-replay era, but I can understand what neverborn means.
But that's where all the mindgames are >_>

Like this (by.hero v upmagic):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6fLGUqq1UY
spoiler:
by.hero expects a proxy rax, so he screws his economy for the bunker rush that never comes. Upmagic takes control for the rest of the game

Or this (stork v kal):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4O1fGZXChY
spoiler:
Stork lets Kal scout his base, so Kal attempts to counter a 3/4 gate allin with mass cannons and fast DTs, but instead Stork proxies a robo. Reaver > cannons, observers > DTs.

Or watch the JF v BRAT_OK series (that was ~A- level, I think)
BRAT_OK opens with factport in half the games because he expected a reaver drop from JF, and in game 2 JF changed his build completely because BRAT_OK scouted it.

Edit: Also, this thread makes me want to bash my head against a wall
meh

 

Last edited by roegi; 01-25-2009 at 08:49 PM.
 

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Old 01-22-2009
 
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Seriously, there is like an unspoken code on b.net that if you challenge somebody to 1v1 and if for whatever reason they don't feel like playing that is "dodge" and "owned." I get this all the time in 2v2, after they lose they're like "1v1?"

What does that prove? Still doesn't change the fact that you suck at 2v2!

Quote:
If somebody else doesn't want to play maps they don't know to avoid looking like a fool, just let them.
Thats the problem, when people pretend to be "experts" or think they are so damn great at this game but can't play a map they've never played before or seen 10,000 replays of pros playing before, I don't think you should consider yourself to be good. Maybe "good at immitating other players, their strategies, and build orders" but someone who is truly just good period could adapt to a map he's never played before.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#23
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Originally Posted by The Hawaiian View Post

Thats the problem, when people pretend to be "experts" or think they are so damn great at this game but can't play a map they've never played before or seen 10,000 replays of pros playing before, I don't think you should consider yourself to be good. Maybe "good at immitating other players, their strategies, and build orders" but someone who is truly just good period could adapt to a map he's never played before.

You can't just copy out of replays and expect to get "good". Maybe win a few D or D+ level games, but that would be it. Without understanding timings and intricacies behind builds or strats or whatever, you can't even be considered "good" at 1v1.

Besides, look at A level players if they just melee on a map they haven't seen before they will be basically be playing blind. They are considered good, but before playing in leagues and tournaments they spam practice those maps and watch korean vods.

And that's another thing. Define what you mean by "good" or "expert".

If it really ticks you off that bad /dnd or /squelch
Getting worked up over battle.net is moronic.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#24
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*bashes head against the wall*
Please stop bumping this T_T
And this is not self-contradictory; this thread is at the top of the list right now
 
 

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Old 01-22-2009
 
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Between this thread, and sick defence that's like half of our activity this year. I don't think it will matter if this thread is second or first. This is like 50% of our conversation, we can't let it die.
 
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Old 01-22-2009
 
#26
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But a little part of me dies inside every time I read this T_T
 
 

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Old 01-23-2009
 
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well, keep bashing your head against the wall then.
 
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Old 01-23-2009
 
#28
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Originally Posted by FPS_Deano View Post
You can't just copy out of replays and expect to get "good". Maybe win a few D or D+ level games, but that would be it. Without understanding timings and intricacies behind builds or strats or whatever, you can't even be considered "good" at 1v1.

Besides, look at A level players if they just melee on a map they haven't seen before they will be basically be playing blind. They are considered good, but before playing in leagues and tournaments they spam practice those maps and watch korean vods.
You see thats the difference. B.net is not WCG, yet half of the "experts" like to pretend it is, and that they are Gods gift to mankind. B.net is a bunch of bullshit, you get on there and you play and thats it. But so many people have their egos built up so badly that there is an entire world of politics in b.net 1v1 community.

I bring up this thread because here is my experience. I play a nice 2v2 game and dominate, then the guy who got owned gets mad and challenges me to 1v1. Im like fine whatever, so I make a random blizzard map that I never played before but was otherwise balanced (I checked beforehand to make sure it wasn't one of those silly blizzard maps). He said it was unbalanced. Ok fine, so I found one of the older maps I haven't played in like 5 years (Black Vayne or something). He says "iccup only." Ok thats fine, so then I download an iccup mappack and make a map that he's never played before (and me too), he refuses to play it because he's never played that map before, make python or luna.

See where this is going? Finally I refused him. I was like this is getting ridiculous I've made 3 times and you obviously don't want to play so no, sorry. Hes like "haha dodge newb." People refuse to play outside of their confort zone on BATTLE.NET. WTF? What do you have to lose? Your pride and great name on b.net? Will you be forever shamed by all of your fans on b.net? Jesus. By even playing 1v1 I am playing outside of my comfort zone, but I'll do it if I get bored enough.

And that's another thing. Define what you mean by "good" or "expert".

If it really ticks you off that bad /dnd or /squelch
Getting worked up over battle.net is moronic.[/quote]
 
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Old 01-23-2009
 
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. Hes like "haha dodge newb."

O noes! your E-Ego!!
 
 

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Old 01-23-2009
 
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You see thats the difference. B.net is not WCG, yet half of the "experts" like to pretend it is, and that they are Gods gift to mankind. B.net is a bunch of bullshit, you get on there and you play and thats it. But so many people have their egos built up so badly that there is an entire world of politics in b.net 1v1 community.

I bring up this thread because here is my experience. I play a nice 2v2 game and dominate, then the guy who got owned gets mad and challenges me to 1v1. Im like fine whatever, so I make a random blizzard map that I never played before but was otherwise balanced (I checked beforehand to make sure it wasn't one of those silly blizzard maps). He said it was unbalanced. Ok fine, so I found one of the older maps I haven't played in like 5 years (Black Vayne or something). He says "iccup only." Ok thats fine, so then I download an iccup mappack and make a map that he's never played before (and me too), he refuses to play it because he's never played that map before, make python or luna.

See where this is going? Finally I refused him. I was like this is getting ridiculous I've made 3 times and you obviously don't want to play so no, sorry. Hes like "haha dodge newb." People refuse to play outside of their confort zone on BATTLE.NET. WTF? What do you have to lose? Your pride and great name on b.net? Will you be forever shamed by all of your fans on b.net? Jesus. By even playing 1v1 I am playing outside of my comfort zone, but I'll do it if I get bored enough.
/dnd
/squelch

problem solved.

Also, how can you be making a random blizzard map you haven't seen before, but have checked that it's not imbalanced. Truth is majority of blizzard maps are imbalanced and a good part of the community shun them for 1v1.

They are fun to play from time to time, but if some guy is trash talking like that he won't want to lose to a map imbalance when zerg doesn't have a natural or something.
 
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