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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Protoss Ground

Now, most Protoss discussion seems to be on the air units, which I agree, has some balancing work to be done (and I'm convince Blizzard will do awesomely and such). And there's also a lotta discussion on GTA units, in that there's only the Stalker (which has less HP- if I'm not mistaken- than the dragoon; and I dont know about damage) and the Archon (which has short range, is used less, uber expensive, and mainly a ground killer). And maybe the Stasis Orb hits air, but that thing's probably history... But that's a topic for another discussion.

Mine involves the holy-shit-powerful GTG Protoss ground. We have the uber-HP (with a friggin shield upgrade!- Collosus that will decimate swarms like no other and has cliff-climbing (though CAN be hit by all units). There's the Immortal, which seems to pwn what the Collossus does not, as in the big, mighty units. And then there's the DT, which can now be warped in, and can still one-hit-kill a Marine when upgraded (though combat shields will help alleviate this a bit, i believe), and are of COURSE, invisible. And last but not least, there's the Zealot, a fantastic melee unit with charge that can rip up that melee disadvantage by zapping to the attacker.

Now, of course, I love these units, do not misunderstand me. But is this imbalanced? What kind of Terran ground can counter this effectively? Marines and medics were never that strong, and Immortals kill siege tanks, and collosus slaughter infantry, and so on and so forth.

You be the judge.
 
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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

It'll be balanced. If I say the stuff u said here about SC1 that will look imbalanced to you as well. Think about this: protoss got zealots that rip off tanks, goons for vultures, if he goes bio (m&m or whatever) u tech to reaver or high templar... but this isnt imbalanced, because now think about the terran's part:
you got tanks that kill goons, vultures that kill zealots, tanks>reavers, vultures can snipe hts... well, it's THIS kind of stuff that makes a game balanced.
 
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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Actually, I think the stalkers stats are:

60 shield points(less than the dragoon)
120 hit points(more the dragoon)
I'm hoping they have +1 base armor like goons do.
About the same as 80/100 of the dragoon.

This is from other SC2 sites I've come across.

Also, areese, you're forgetting reapers.(with mines) Besides, there's always the banshee)
 
 

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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

I figured Blizz will make it godly, but I like to voice concerns :-)

And you know what, keep the stasis orb! But in addition to the slowing attack, make it a mobile shield battery (that stops moving when charging shields) and VOILA: instant useful support unit.
 
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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Thor can take down the big stuff like colossus. Reapers for sniping out the smaller units (like vultures used to)
 
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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Cobras probably dont activate the shield of immortals and are good vs stalkers colosus and eny mechanicall unit they can shoot and move at the same time and that makes them good for eny mele or short range unit (Immortal),vikings are good ground units with nice ranged attack the Thor can kill enything ground not even the immortals cant stand all that fire power of his cannons ( in the terran movie he killed a planetary fortress all by him self with those cannons) and with 900 hp and all that armor can tank like hell and he is probably about the same price as the colosus... Besides if you go for mass ground i will probably go banshees they arent very expensive and can make short work of the stalkers and most ground units with that splash of theirs add in 2 BC with plasma turrets and you got it made ...If you mingle tanks+ thors all that siege power can take enything even the immortals with their shields...Frebats are back in the game so i dont see what the imbalanced thing is probably only the dark templars but you will just tech to Nomad before that just defend near the sensor towers.
 
 

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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Vikings (air) or Cobra can take care of colossus and immortals. M&M can take care of everything else.
 



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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Quote:
Originally Posted by milesj View Post
Vikings (air) or Cobra can take care of colossus and immortals. M&M can take care of everything else.
yeah sure,... and templar with storm???
 
 

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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Quote:
Actually, I think the stalkers stats are:

60 shield points(less than the dragoon)
120 hit points(more the dragoon)
I'm hoping they have +1 base armor like goons do.
About the same as 80/100 of the dragoon.

This is from other SC2 sites I've come across
Yea, those are the stats Ive seen. So actually the Stalker is tougher than the Dragoon. I don't know why everyone always seems to think the Stalker is weaker.
 
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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

I think that's why the Terran has cheaper air, including an anti-ground ship. The Inmortal is good vs armored and the Collosus is good vs small, but both are completely defenseless against air.
Maybe the Cobra can take out the Collosus, seems like the ray must "chase" targets, but the Cobra can shoot while moving, and has 35 damage vs armored.
And still, how many units are missing to reach the BW unit count?
 
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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Quote:
Cobras probably dont activate the shield of immortals
Attacks that do more than 10 damage ... only do 10 damage. Cobras do 10 damage, +25 vs armored. Whether the extra damage applies to Immortals or not (it probably does), the damage is decreased to 10. The most important consideration is whether the Cobra has a high RoF.

IMO, the Colossus/Immortal combo is fine. It has no defense against air, for starters. Terrans have their own combos, such as Vikings (good against weaker ground) and Siege Tanks (good against stronger ground). Vikings aren't that powerful, but then they're much less expensive than the Colossus.

Also, the Colossus takes time to actually do damage/kill a unit, even if the actual amount of damage is quite high.
 

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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Yes, the cobra vs. immortal is very good question Blizzard needs to resolve. Will the damage bonus apply? Who knows. I just hope Vikings are better vs. ground than the goliaths. And that Thors can truly beat a collosus or an immortal (well im sure it coul take one). But thors have a slow ROF and would do 10 damage vs. Immortals.

Anyone know the Immortal HP and Attack?

And I'm glad Stalkers are as/more powerful than dragoons. That's a relief.

And does anyone notice how more powerful SC2 units are than SC1? Mostly all units are upped (which is fine, mind you...)
 
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And a major pox on that bastard Jeph Loeb. Everything you touch dies.
 

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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

I noticed, and kept it under my hat. Maybe they wanted units to be cooler and less throw-away.

I recall from BlizzCon the Immortal did 15 damage (and if there were any damage bonuses vs certain types, I don't recall). I forget how much health it had; at WWI it had 100 shields and 240 hit points and that probably didn't change.

I don't think Blizzard needs to resolve the Cobra vs Immortal. If it does more than 10 damage, it does only 10 damage. This makes Cobras suck vs Immortals, although they're good against pretty much any other heavily armored unit... except maybe Siege Tanks. (The Immortal's shield doesn't really "activate" so much as simply "appear really cool" when the Immortal takes more than 10 damage.) If you want to kill Immortals, you need to use infantry (which means they're useful for the whole game). I suspect spells avoid the damage (eg I'm pretty sure Psi Storm does full damage to Immortals, and of course Nomads still have EMP).
 

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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

How exactly does the damage calculation work? Does the Cobra's 10+25 damage against heavy units count as one chunk of damage? Or is it 10 damage, then plus 25?

What I'm asking is whether in the new damage system the damage bonuses counted at the same time as the base damage? Or are they separate?

IDK, maybe the Cobra's 10 damage wont trigger the Imms sheild, then the +25 is credited after the special sheild effect takes place. Kinda like stacking in Magic:the Gathering, I suppose.

Sorry, I do realize I didnt present the thought in the clearest manner. My head's a lil' hazy atm.
 
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Old 09-17-2007
 
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Default Re: Protoss Ground

Why would the bonus be treated separately? I don't see how that makes sense.
 

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