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Old 01-25-2009
 
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Default New Macro Suggestion: Temporary Manual Worker Upgrades

Simplified Mechanic explanation :

Each worker will have a new unique upgrade. Likely a tier 1.5-2 upgrade for workers of each race. After a worker has been upgraded, it will be visually different, and highlighted when selected so you can tell the difference between upgraded workers, and regular workers. After a worker is upgraded, it will start a bar similar to a broodlings or hallucinations. When the bar runs out, the worker returns to normal.

Example of the mineral warp field :
Hidden Content:


Alternative to being a Temporary Upgrade:
Instead of the progress bar counting down to nothing, and the worker turning back to a regular worker, the progress bar can count down to giving the worker extreme fragility.

This fragility will make the worker unable to be repaired, healed, and both shield and health cannot be regenerated. This Fragility will happen after a worker is upgraded for 2 minutes. This makes it so if you want your opponent to stop getting a bonus, and be forced to rebuild, and re-upgrade his workers, you must seek out and kill those workers. The workers health will be reduced to almost nothing, and its armor will take a hit as well.

Simplified Upgrade Info:

Big SCV -
Advantages
  • Increased mineral and gas harvesting per trip
    -8 blue minerals
    -12 High yield minerals
    -14 gas
  • 15% faster build time
  • 15% faster repair time
  • Will last 2 minutes
  • max supply will not stop upgrade
Disadvantages
  • Will cost 1 additional supply
  • Will cost 25 minerals and 25 gas
  • Will take 20 seconds to complete upgrade

Dark Probe -
Advantages
  • 25% movement speed increase
  • Warps minerals to nexus from near the minerals(with nexus mineral warp radius)
  • Can build Dark Pylons for Increased Supply and Power Radius
  • Does not cost additional supply
  • Huge mineral reward from upgrading
  • Will last 2 minutes
  • Two Dark Probe's can mine minerals at a time

Disadvantages
  • Very little gas reward from upgrading
  • Costs 35 minerals and 15 gas
  • Will take 20 seconds to complete upgrade

Shifter Drone -
Advantages
  • Harvests minerals in 1 second, rather than 3
  • 2 drones can fit into an extractor at one time
  • can merge with a building and give it up to 20% additional hit points
  • Huge Gas harvesting reward (6 shifter drones per extractor)
  • Does not cost additional supply
  • Will last 2 minutes
Disadvantages
  • Costs 15 minerals, and 30 gas
  • Very little mineral reward because of the high gas cost
  • Will take 20 seconds to complete upgrade

More Information:

All above abilities require: Appropriate building to be built for each race, in order for upgrade to be enabled. Small Resource and time cost each time you upgrade.

What I mean by "Manual Worker Upgrades" is that each worker has to be upgraded by selecting the worker and pressing the upgrade option. You can upgrade as many workers at one time as you want. However, during the upgrade process the worker is immobile for a period of time, likely 10-20 seconds. After being fully upgraded, the worker will have about 1-2 minutes before turning back to normal. Each upgrade will cost a small amount of resources, along with the 10-20 second upgrade time. Each worker will have its own progress bar to indicate when that particular worker will turn back to normal.

***Update*** - 12:23pm 1/27/09 - Also, during a workers upgrading process, you should be able to queue in the workers next command. As in, selecting worker during upgrade and choosing to build a supply depot, or, selecting a worker during upgrade, and rightclicking on a resource, and it will automatically start gathering.

Each Race's Upgrade in greater detail( My Suggestions):


To add some more difference to each upgrade:

Terran SCV: will get pretty equal upgrades to Mineral and Gas harvesting. + 1 to supply
Protoss Probe: will get better mineral harvesting, but improved gas harvesting(upgrade will cost more minerals than gas) - No supply increase
Zerg Drone: will get better gas harvesting, but improved mineral harvesting. (Upgrade will cost more gas than minerals) - No supply increase

Upgraded SCV: (Big SCV)(Idea is finished)
The bigger SCV will take up 1 additional supply while its upgraded, however, being at max supply will not stop you from upgrading. You will just have to build more supply depots to continue unit production. If you are maxed on supply with 200, your scvs will still be able to upgrade, and you'll have a number like 216/200 for example. The reason for this additional supply, is the fact the SCVs upgrade will benefit both gas and minerals pretty equally. Also, the benefit from the SCV's repair and building speed will make it slightly more beneficial to terran than the other two races. 15% faster repair and build rate would be my suggestion.

Upgraded Probe(Dark Probe): (Idea finished)
Nexus has a power radius similar to pylons. This power radius stretches out and covers the entire minimum mineral placement distance in every direction. Upgraded probe will get a 25% speed upgrade, and the probe will take 3 seconds to gather minerals, turn around, and the minerals will warp out of the probes possession, then the dark probe will go back to work, that will take a total of 1 second. This will work only on minerals(because the gas is too dangerous to warp in), giving the probe more of an advantage with minerals, than with gas. The dark probe's speed upgrade will turn its 4 second gas harvesting into 3 second gas harvesting, for a slight gas advantage, However, the dark probes mineral advantage is better, and its HY mineral advantage is great.

Upgraded probe will become a “dark probe”, which is a probe with dark templar energies… This dark probe will have the dark templar look, and be faster. It will be able to make dark pylons for added supply, and increased power radius.

Upgraded Drone(Shape Shifter Drone or Shifter Drone): (Idea finished)

Will take only 1 second to harvest minerals, and 2 upgraded drones can enter an extractor at one time. It will take 2 seconds inside the extractor, rather than being instant with upgraded drones, but when they come out both will have 8 gas(16 total every 4 seconds). It will take 2 seconds to gather gas, 2 seconds to return gas to main, and 2 seconds to return to extractor, allowing you to be able to have up to 6 drones per extractor for peak gas harvesting. These upgraded drones have an increase in adrenaline, and an increased morphing ability. This ability allows 2 drones to fit into the extractor at the same time, and allows the drones to morph with a building to fortify it with 20% additional health if progress bar(Upgrade time left for Shifter Drone before it changes back) is above 50% at the point merging begins, and 10% additional health if a shifter drone is under 50% on its progress bar. Buildings can only be fortified once, and it will take 10-20 seconds to complete the merge.


Gameplay Benefits of this idea:


Uniqueness - It keeps the uniqueness of each race, providing benefits that only one race can receive.

Attention
- It requires you to actually select your workers, and upgrade them individually. The more you upgrade, the more your attention is taken away from other things.

Reward - The better you are at upgrading at the right time, while dealing with the small resource cost for upgrading, and the time it takes to transform the worker, the more efficient you'll be in resource and base management, and the better off your economy will be in each game.

Casual friendly - Isn't required at all. Casual players can do as much as they like, or as little as they like. If they choose not to mess around with this, they can focus on other parts of their game, such as microing units and using abilities, or scouting more to be better informed of enemy strategy and still do well in the game.

Pro friendly - Pro players will be able to get extremely good at managing everything, and will actually be able to improve their macro.

I am open to any suggestions. - Please at least give your opinion on this idea.

Full Specifications for this idea:

Big SCV Stats:

Upgrade Specs:
How long does it last : 2 minutes
How many resources: 25 minerals and 25 gas
How long does upgrading take – 20 seconds

Constant stats (Changes only if blizzard changes minerals/gas mined per trip):
Regular mineral mining = 5 minerals per trip
High Yield mineral mining = 8 minerals per trip
Regular gas mining = 8 gas per trip

Constant stats (Changes only if blizzard changes minerals/gas mined per trip):
Minerals mined per normal worker in a 2 minute time period = 85
Minerals mined per 8 normal workers in 2 minutes = 680

High Yield Minerals mined per normal worker in 2 minutes = 136
High Yield Minerals mined per 8 normal workers in 2 minutes = 1088

Gas mined per normal worker in 2 minute period = 240
Gas mined for 2 normal workers in 2 minutes = 480
Gas mined for 2 geysers (4 workers) in 2 minutes = 960


Upgrade Costs (Changes only if upgrade time, upgrade cost, or length of upgrade changes):
Minerals lost per normal worker during upgrade = 15 minerals lost
Minerals lost per upgrade period = 120 minerals for 8 normal workers

High Yield Minerals lost per normal worker during upgrade = 24
HY Minerals lost per upgrade for 8 workers = 192

Gas lost per normal worker during upgrade = 40 gas lost
Gas lost per upgrade period for 2 workers = 80 gas lost
Gas lost per upgrade period for 4 workers = 160 gas lost

Upgrade Cost for 8 workers at one time = 200 minerals and 200 gas
Total minerals lost in 2 minutes for 8 upgraded workers (Upgrade Cost + Min Lost during upgrade) = 320 minerals
Total gas lost in 2 minutes for 2 upgraded workers = (Upgrade Cost + Gas lost during upgrade) = 360 gas
Total resources lost = 320 Minerals, 360 gas, 392 HYMinerals( 8 mineral miners, 4 gas miners)

SCV Upgrade Stats:

Upgraded SCV will gather 8(+3) minerals per trip – 136 minerals per 2 minute period
8 Upgraded SCVs will gather = 1088 minerals per 2 minutes
Upgrade benefit = 408 minerals per 2 minutes

Upgraded SCV will gather 12(+4) High Yield Minerals per trip – 204 HY minerals per 2 minute period
8 Upgraded SCVs will gather = 1360 minerals per 2 minutes
Upgrade benefit = 544 HY minerals per 2 minutes

Upgraded SCV will gather 14(+6) gas per trip – 360
4 upgraded SCVs will gather = 1632 gas in 2 minutes
Upgrade benefit = 480 gas per 2 minutes

Total Reward for Upgrading SCVs (Benefit - Resources Lost) :
88 extra minerals per 8 upgraded SCVs every 2 minutes
120 extra gas per 4 upgraded SCVs every 2 minutes
152 extra HY minerals per 8 upgraded SCVs every 2 minutes

Dark Probe Stats:

Upgrade Specs:
How long does it last : 2 minutes
How many resources: 35 minerals and 15 gas
How long does upgrading take – 20 seconds

Upgrade Costs (Changes only if upgrade time, upgrade cost, or length of upgrade changes):
Upgrade Cost for 8 workers at one time = 280 minerals and 120 gas
Total minerals lost in 2 minutes for 8 upgraded workers (Upgrade Cost + Min Lost during upgrade) = 360 minerals
Total gas lost in 2 minutes for 4 upgraded workers = (Upgrade Cost + Gas lost during upgrade) = 320 gas
Total resources lost = 400 Minerals, 280 gas, 472 HYMinerals( 8 mineral miners, 4 gas miners)

Dark Probe Upgrade Stats:
Upgraded Probe will gather 5 minerals per trip – 150 minerals per 2 minute period
8 upgraded probes will gather = 1200 per 2 minutes
Upgrade benefit = 520 per 2 minutes

Upgraded Probe will gather 8 HY minerals per trip – 240
8 Upgraded Probes will gather = 1920 per 2 minutes
Upgrade Benefit = 832 HY minerals per 2 minutes

Upgraded Probe will gather 8 Gas per trip – 320 gas per 2 min
4 Upgraded Probes will gather = 1280 gas per 2 min
Upgrade Benefit = 320 gas per 2 min

Total Reward for Upgrading Probes (Benefit – Resources Lost):
120 extra minerals per 8 upgraded probes every 2 minutes
40 extra gas per 4 upgraded probes every 2 minutes
360 extra HY minerals per 8 upgraded probes every 2 minutes

Shifter Drone Stats:
Upgrade Specs:
How long does it last : 2 minutes
How many resources: 15 minerals and 30 gas
How long does upgrading take – 20 seconds

Upgrade Costs (Changes only if upgrade time, upgrade cost, or length of upgrade changes):
Gas lost per upgrade period for 6 workers (1 geyser) = 240 gas lost
Gas lost per upgrade period for 12(2 geysers, 6 per extractor) workers = 480

Upgrade Cost for 8 workers at one time = 120 minerals and 240 gas
Upgrade Cost for 6 workers at one time = 90 minerals and 180
Total minerals lost in 2 minutes for 8 upgraded workers (Upgrade Cost + Min Lost during upgrade) = 240 minerals
Total gas lost in 2 minutes for 6 upgraded workers = (Upgrade Cost + Gas lost during upgrade) = 420 gas

Drone Upgrade Stats:

Upgraded Drone will gather 5 minerals per trip – 120 minerals per 2 minutes
8 upgraded drones will gather = 960 minerals per 2 minutes
Upgrade Benefit = 280 minerals per 2 minutes

Upgraded Drone will gather 8 HY minerals per trip – 192
8 Upgraded Drones will gather = 1536 HY minerals per 2 minutes
Upgrade Benefit = 448

Upgraded Drone will gather 8 Gas every 2 minutes – 160 gas per 2 minutes
2 Upgraded Drones per extractor will gather = 320 gas per 2 minutes
4 Upgraded Drones per extractor will gather = 640 gas per 2 minutes
6 Upgraded Drones per extractor will gather = 960 gas per 2 minutes
12 Upgraded drones per 2 geysers will gather = 1920
Upgrade Benefit for 6 Shifter Drones = 440
Upgrade Benefit for 12 Shifter Drones = 1160

For every 12 upgraded drones to harvest gas, you will be paying 270 minerals, to gather a huge extra bonus of gas.

Total Reward for Upgrading Drones (Benefit – Resources Lost):
40 Extra minerals per 8 upgraded drones every 2 minutes
20 Extra gas per 6 upgraded drones (1 Extractor) every 2 minutes
320 Extra gas per 12 upgraded drones (2 Extractors) every 2 minutes
136 Extra HY minerals per 8 upgraded drones every 2 minutes


How I came by these numbers(Watched battle report and counted):

All normal workers and upgraded SCV's gather time:
Mineral gather time - 3 seconds to gather, 2 seconds to move to command center, and 2 seconds back to minerals = 7 seconds /17 harvests in 2 minutes
Gas Gather time – 2 seconds to bring gas to cc, 2 seconds to return = 4 seconds / 30 harvests in 2 minutes

Dark Probe's Gather time:

Probe 1.5 seconds for gas both ways – 3 seconds – 40 harvests in 2 min
Probe 3 seconds to gather, 1 total with warp in minerals – Total 4 seconds /30 harvests in 2 min
Shifter Drone's Gather time:
Shifter Drone gathers minerals in 1 seconds, takes them to main in 2 seconds, returns in 2 seconds - total of 5 seconds per mineral gather / 24 harvests in 2 minutes
Shifter Drone gathers gas at 2 seconds in the extractor, 2 seconds to bring to main, 2 seconds to return – total of 6 seconds / 20 Harvests for 1 drone, 40 harvests for 2 drones
 

Last edited by Santrega; 02-07-2009 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 01-25-2009
 
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Can I select all my workers and click upgrade?
 

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Old 01-25-2009
 
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Originally Posted by Archerofaiur View Post
Can I select all my workers and click upgrade?
Yes, but for 10-20 seconds they will be standing around doing nothing, and then you'll have to tell them to start mining or doing whatever again. You also have to pay a cost in resources, which will make it much more costly to select a large amount at one time and upgrade.
 
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Old 01-25-2009
 
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I dunno, this seems like a pretty crazy idea. If pros can constantly keep all their workers in an upgraded state (upgrading them again the moment they return to normal.)

It's going to be a massive advantage. Like, uber.
 
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Old 01-25-2009
 
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Originally Posted by WolfGangGrimmer View Post
I dunno, this seems like a pretty crazy idea. If pros can constantly keep all their workers in an upgraded state (upgrading them again the moment they return to normal.)

It's going to be a massive advantage. Like, uber.
If someone could do it perfectly, possibly it would create a huge macro advantage. However, I'm not exactly sure someone can do it perfectly.

Also, if i'm concentrating more on building units, rather than gathering resources, i'd imagine its possible for me to overpower someone who is upgrading a lot. Or, if I am concentrating on harrassing his workers, its possible I can cripple any attempt he has of getting a really good upgrade advantage. You also have to look for whatever building is required to do these upgrades, if you attack and kill that, you dont have to worry about the upgrade advantage at all. People will have to protect that building a lot more with this idea.
 
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Old 01-26-2009
 
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Very cool ideas, and I'm fond of the premise of race-specific upgrades which could augment resource acquisition or other specific advantages. Allowing drones to morph with buildings for added health is especially cool.

As with any new mechanic being introduces it would have to be balanced, and this is one which would have to be considered carefully. But by and large I think it could work well and be fun at the same time!
 
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Old 01-26-2009
 
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One quick comment

similar to the idea posted in the macro competition, the Protoss worker speed upgrade would actually be almost a disadvantage because you reach worker saturation that much faster.

If you can find a way to deal with that, though, I think the mechanic has a lot of potential. It's simple, varied by race, and would require just the right kind of attention and decision-making throughout the game.
 
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Old 01-26-2009
 
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Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
One quick comment

similar to the idea posted in the macro competition, the Protoss worker speed upgrade would actually be almost a disadvantage because you reach worker saturation that much faster.

The way I see it, you could use this to find a spot on the map that is in between two mineral spots. Then just mass harvest two spots at the same time. That would be the benefit I'd see from this upgrade. This way, you can just use less probes per mineral site, and harvest from two spots at once.

Additionally, in just a normal spot, you would require less probes to reach saturation, in turn saving you some psi.
 
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Old 01-26-2009
 
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Hmm, interesting. I do like the idea of macro mechanics actually affecting the way people build bases.

On the subject of worker saturation, I'd have to see it tested in practice of course, but my gut feeling is that 12 workers (normal saturation number) with enhanced gather speed would give a bigger advantage than being able to saturate with 8 workers. In other words I don't think psi cap is that strong of a limiter on your economy.

However, it may be that the other advantages of the Probe speed boost would make it balance out anyway. Protoss might have a slight econ disadvantage in the very early game, but it might be made up for by the fact that their early scout is now much faster than SCVs or Drones. If the speed boost is dramatic, it might actually be possible for Protoss to mine from their natural expo on some maps without a new Nexus, which could be huge.

Basically I think the idea could work in its present state, but there'd have to be lots of testing to be sure. If there were an easy tweak to make the saturation thing a non-issue, I'd be all for it as well.
 
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Old 01-26-2009
 
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Cool ideas, how about we even further diversify the methods of upgrading?

Terran: SCVs require each other to equip new tools, they should cost additional supply. Basically, the attention of an SCV for a newer SCV.
Zerg: Drones require Creep to morph into advanced form. Lengthy morph due to productivity (3 Larva = 3 Drones).
Protoss: Nexus upgrade, pay resources to zap a Probe into supercharged version.

I wouldn't mind if this makes it


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Old 01-26-2009
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santrega View Post
Simplified explanation :

Each worker will have a new unique upgrade. Likely a tier 1.5-2 upgrade for workers of each race. After a worker has been upgraded, it will be visually different, and highlighted when selected so you can tell the difference between upgraded workers, and regular workers. After a worker is upgraded, it will start a bar similar to a broodlings or hallucinations. When the bar runs out, the worker returns to normal.

Upgrade Info:

Upgraded SCV - Can still be the "big scv" as an upgrade, allowing it to carry more resources per trip. Additional benefit - can build/repair faster than normal

Upgraded Probe - Speed upgrade, allowing it to move from and to the resources much faster. Additional benefit - Can build dark pylons for additional psi.

Upgraded Drone - Faster Harvesting of minerals and gas. **Additional benefit(Any ideas?), Possibly can merge with buildings to increase its health, each building can only be merged with once. Upgraded drone is sacrificed, and building is permanently given 10-20% health boost.- Another possibility is that an upgraded drone can morph into buildings at a cheaper cost(25-35% less)

More Information:

All above abilities require: Appropriate building to be built for each race, in order for upgrade to be enabled. Small Resource and time cost each time you upgrade.

What I mean by "Manual Worker Upgrades" is that each worker has to be upgraded by selecting the worker and pressing the upgrade option. You can upgrade as many workers at one time as you want. However, during the upgrade process the worker is immobile for a period of time, likely 10-20 seconds. After being fully upgraded, the worker will have about 1-2 minutes before turning back to normal. Each upgrade will cost a small amount of resources, along with the 10-20 second upgrade time. Each worker will have its own progress bar to indicate when that particular worker will turn back to normal.

Gameplay Benefits of this idea:

Uniqueness - It keeps the uniqueness of each race, providing benefits that only one race can receive.

Attention - It requires you to actually select your workers, and upgrade them individually. The more you upgrade, the more your attention is taken away from other things.

Reward - The better you are at upgrading at the right time, while dealing with the small resource cost for upgrading, and the time it takes to transform the worker, the more efficient you'll be in resource and base management, and the better off your economy will be in each game.

Casual friendly - Isn't required at all. Casual players can do as much as they like, or as little as they like. If they choose not to mess around with this, they can focus on other parts of their game, such as microing units and using abilities, or scouting more to be better informed of enemy strategy and still do well in the game.

Pro friendly - Pro players will be able to get extremely good at managing everything, and will actually be able to improve their macro.

I am open to any suggestions. - Please at least give your opinion on this idea.

Things I like about the mechanic:

-Race specific

-Enhances resource management

-Multiple Uses



Things I dont like about the mechanic

-Can be automated (Unlimited selection and hotkeys)

-Does not feature context shifting

-Abilities need work



Get theorycrafting Santrega. You've got a good basis but you can make allot of improvements to this.
 

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Old 01-26-2009
 
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Originally Posted by Santrega View Post
Yes, but for 10-20 seconds they will be standing around doing nothing, and then you'll have to tell them to start mining or doing whatever again. You also have to pay a cost in resources, which will make it much more costly to select a large amount at one time and upgrade.
In either case, you will always lose the same amount of net harvesting time through mass selecting as you would if you used it individually. You'll lose it all at the same time instead of over a period of time, but there's no net difference in your income, and there is a huge net difference in how much of your attention is taken up by this. I don't see why any pro player would ever do this to his workers individually.

On the same note, you note the "more costly" nature of doing this to a group instead of individual workers -- but there's no NET difference, and the cost can't be that big anyway if it's going to lead to an INCREASE in revenue.

Think about it: how much can an individual upgrade cost in order for it to be worth it? The problem is, the more often you have to use the ability, the less costly the upgrade can be (unless those Probes are going to be speeding around the map so quickly that you won't be able to target them) -- but the LESS often you have to use the ability, the less macro it introduces. Neither one is an optimal scenario.
 
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Old 01-26-2009
 
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Hm, this is interesting - I definitely think they (Blizzard) could work with it!

Spontaneously I'm unsure how I feel about the downtime (10-20 sec), but I guess that would add more of a strategic consideration for when/how many workers to "turn"..
I almost think it should be added to the top 3 of the contest, although I guess that wouldn't be very fair.. It'd be a nice and varied top 3 tho, with this, #5, and #8.

Need to sleep now, but again, good idea

EDIT: I'm not really worried about anyone handling this remotely.. I mean, you'll have a ton of bases right? So what are you going to do, hotkey each group of workers individually and keep track of when each group needs "refreshing" (ideally it wouldn't be a "ok time's up, gotta go click that button again"-ability, but that's up to how you balance it I guess)? If you hotkey ALL workers you are left with 20 seconds of no mining at all + the fee for the upgrades.. The only stage of the game where that seems feasible is the very late game, an area of the game that is largely unaffected by automining at least (as you don't even build workers at this point, normally) so there's not likely to be a huge need for added macro at this point - enough other stuff going on.
 

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Old 01-27-2009
 
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Because of pureWasted, I decided to take quite a bit of time and figure out the specifics of this idea, with set in stone upgrade specifications. I've added what i've figured out to the bottom of the OP.

Using just 8 scvs per mineral patch, and 2 scvs per refinery.. you get a pretty good bonus...The more work you put into upgrading, the bigger bonus you get from it.

BTW Guys, did you notice that you only need 2 scvs per refinery now? The gas boost may seem like a lot, however, its not because you only have 2 workers mining a gas building now, rather than 3 from sc1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pureWasted View Post
In either case, you will always lose the same amount of net harvesting time through mass selecting as you would if you used it individually. You'll lose it all at the same time instead of over a period of time, but there's no net difference in your income, and there is a huge net difference in how much of your attention is taken up by this. I don't see why any pro player would ever do this to his workers individually.

On the same note, you note the "more costly" nature of doing this to a group instead of individual workers -- but there's no NET difference, and the cost can't be that big anyway if it's going to lead to an INCREASE in revenue.

Think about it: how much can an individual upgrade cost in order for it to be worth it? The problem is, the more often you have to use the ability, the less costly the upgrade can be (unless those Probes are going to be speeding around the map so quickly that you won't be able to target them) -- but the LESS often you have to use the ability, the less macro it introduces. Neither one is an optimal scenario.
The cost you are missing pure, is the cost of having your workers not gathering resources for 20 seconds. I did the math in the OP, you will lose a total of 320 minerals(8SCVs), 360 gas(4SCVs), and 392 HY minerals(8SCVs), which includes the cost of the upgrade for 8 scvs, and the potential resources lost.

Now, 320 minerals and 200 gas may seem like a little to you, but it will make a huge difference in a game. Upgrading your scvs don't do anything toward actually creating an army. If your opponent is going for units, your mass upgrade will hurt you bad. That's the whole point of the 20 second upgrade time.

Additionally, doing the upgrading in smaller numbers will help you, because this will make the cost burden you less. There will be several different ways one can go about upgrading.

1) Upgrade all at same time
2) Upgrade half, to keep resources coming in at all times
3) Upgrade in parts, constantly upgrading all workers not in upgraded mode(this is likely what pros will do)

Casuals will likely do some mix of 1, 2, and 3. Competitive players will likely do a mix of 2 and 3.

The idea to this, is that Upgraded SCVs will not show in the normal SCVs select all on screen. Therefore, you can constantly select all for normal workers, and upgrade them.
 

Last edited by Santrega; 01-27-2009 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 01-27-2009
 
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Originally Posted by Santrega View Post
The cost you are missing pure, is the cost of having your workers not gathering resources for 20 seconds. I did the math in the OP, you will lose a total of 320 minerals(8SCVs), 360 gas(4SCVs), and 392 HY minerals(8SCVs), which includes the cost of the upgrade for 8 scvs, and the potential resources lost.
I think his point was that the net resources you lose are the same if you do the upgrade all at once, or if you stagger it. If you upgrade 8 SCVs separately, you will still have 8 SCVs idle for the amount of time it takes to upgrade. It just won't be all at once.

However, I think that there IS still a huge advantage to be gained from staggering the ability. Especially in high-level pro games, timing is crucial to a build order. In the early game, you NEVER want to have your production buildings idle while you wait for minerals. This is one of the reasons skilled players generally don't use queues - you don't want minerals tied up waiting to be used if you could use them now for another unit, building, upgrade.

The investment in upgrading your workers temporarily is similar - yes you get the same net outcome if you do it all at once or if you stagger, but if you do them all together you're not gathering at all for a large chunk of time. That's a period where you won't have resources available and your production will go idle.

Now, I suppose it's possible that players will create optimized build orders to allow mass-upgrading. In other words, timing the build so that all your buildings are already busy and you won't suffer from the momentary total suspension of gathering. I'd say that making that difficult would be part of the balancing work done on the mechanic.
 
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