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Old 03-11-2007
 
#46
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

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Originally Posted by UED_Marine View Post
Its already "perfect."
The problem is I don't believe in perfection. What I mean is that it isn't achievable. Maybe as perfect as it can be but not perfect.
 
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Old 03-11-2007
 
#47
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

Nothing that is materialistic is perfect, it can't be. If it can be harmed in any way, shape, or form, meaning it was dented, chipped, scratched, or something like that, then it's not perfect.

There isn't a substance like that on this planet.
 
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Old 03-11-2007
 
#48
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Talking Re: Human Nationalism

Which is why I put perfect in quotation marks.
 
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Old 03-11-2007
 
#49
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

Even in quotes, there is no such thing as perfect. Perfection is but a concept, unless you have certain criteria marked out, such as the Xel'Naga did. If a race reaches purity of form and essence, then by the Xel'Naga standards, they are perfect.

When you say perfect, either set out guidelines or don't use it at all, for there would then be no such thing.
 
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Old 03-12-2007
 
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

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Originally Posted by bullet2head View Post
Nothing that is materialistic is perfect, it can't be. If it can be harmed in any way, shape, or form, meaning it was dented, chipped, scratched, or something like that, then it's not perfect.

There isn't a substance like that on this planet.
Yes exactly, you got it right on the head. This is how I feel.
 
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Old 03-13-2007
 
#51
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Thumbs down Re: Human Nationalism

Your understanding of perfect is flawed. Perfect does not mean "indestructible", indestructible means indestructible. You seem to be confusing the two.

Perfect may not exist, but we use perfect in ways that mean "with maximum efficiency" or "maximum clarity".

So quit with the silly "Perfect isn't perfect because its indestructible" nonsense.
 
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Old 03-13-2007
 
#52
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

No, perfection does mean indistructable. Along with many other things too, being indestructable is one of them. Like I said before, unless you have criteria staked out, you won't reach perfection.

From Wikipedia, the most common type of "perfection" definition used in this world, which is exactly what I just posted.

Quote:
Perfection in the non-dualistic sense is considered to be a continuum of relative merit, established in some thing's relationship to all other things which can be considered relevant to the thing's nature. In this sense there is no ultimate perfection, but instead the relative perfection of a thing is established in terms of its suitability for a particular purpose. For example, a screwdriver can be said to be the perfect tool for embedding a screw. However, while a screwdriver may be perfectly suitable for embedding a screw in wood, a screw-driving power-drill attachment may be considered to be more suitable to embed a screw into a harder material, and hence more perfect in a given case.

 
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Old 03-13-2007
 
#53
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

Yes, and in that sense the Protoss and Zerg are the manifestations of the Xel'Naga's understanding of Form and Essence, respectively.

I personally do not believe in perfection. As a natural law or property, I believe "Perfection" is even non-existent in the StarCraft universe; it is the opinion of the Naga. The Protoss are perfect in that they are highly adaptive to any environment, are extremely sympathetic, and naturally command some of the most powerful abilities possible, the abilities allowed them by their mastery of psionics. The Overmind in perfection of Essence as it waylays differing egoes; it is the manifestation of, ehh... concensus, I guess you could say. :\

However, these purities were created -- or at the very least established -- by the Xel'Naga, so that with a beginning must also have an end, meaning they can be destroyed. For something to be absolutely perfect, to be able to endure the test of time and be "indestructible", it would have to be a force of nature itself... Perhaps that's what the Hybrids themselves shall be: consciousness and life breathed into the natural forces of this universe.
 
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But be wary through what thickets it winds.
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Old 03-13-2007
 
#54
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Talking Re: Human Nationalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet2head View Post
No, perfection does mean indistructable. Along with many other things too, being indestructable is one of them. Like I said before, unless you have criteria staked out, you won't reach perfection.

From Wikipedia, the most common type of "perfection" definition used in this world, which is exactly what I just posted.

Absolutely nothing in that article backed up what you said. Instead, it backed up what I said, almost to an extent that makes you look ridiculous.

A screwdriver is not "indestructible" but it does its job with maximum efficiency. As the article says, there is no universal qualification for "perfection" because what is absolutely maximum at doing one job, will not be so for another. Since "perfection" is a relative term, and not a universal one, saying something is indestructible and thus universally perfect wouldn't make sense.

Take the example of a "perfect" material for making cheap containers and such - perfection in this case would be a high ability to deteriorate and thus not possibly be long-lasting pollution. This is the exact opposite of "indestructible."
 

Last edited by UED_Marine; 03-13-2007 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 03-13-2007
 
#55
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

.... Are you serious? I said perfection in the "everything about something is perfect", means its indestructable, but I go on to say there can be a perfection if you have set standards.

Quote:
Perfection is but a concept, unless you have certain criteria marked out, such as the Xel'Naga did. If a race reaches purity of form and essence, then by the Xel'Naga standards, they are perfect.
I'm fighting on two different fronts here, your fighting on one. Perfection by concept (in your mind, when you think of perfect) standards is unatainable. The object is indestructable and has a use in every situation.

But for criteria, there is such thing as perfection.
 
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Old 03-13-2007
 
#56
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Talking Re: Human Nationalism

But I of course never claimed Protoss technology was utterly perfect. It had reached the end of its development stage, and for the types of weapons and technologies they used, they had reached maximum efficiency, qualified perfection.
 
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Old 03-13-2007
 
#57
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

Pure =/= perfect. The Overmind thought so, but it was insane (by human standards). Then again, the Xel'Naga were obssessed, so they're also insane by human standards. (Sheesh!)

On techological perfection:

I don't know if it's possible to reach the end of the development stage in anything. However, it might take more and more effort to do so. For instance, look at guns; AK47s were invented in the year of their name and they're better than modern M16s in some ways. Newer and better guns (like the XM8) do get made, but they're usually too expensive to be worth the relatively minor improvements (and take a lot of effort to maintain, and might be hard to repair, etc).

Furthermore, some technologies "scale" faster. Computers "scale" faster than cars, which in turn "scale" faster than gun technology; and NASA still uses ten year old computers in its shuttles**

** Well, that was some time ago. Maybe they eventually got replaced.

I think Protoss tech expands slowly because the Khala basically cripples tech expansion; it was the Xel'Naga's rapid tech expansion of the Protoss that broke the psychic link in the first place, and the Khala is a rigid construct designed to prevent that from ever happening again. The Dark Templar are more free in that respect, but we don't know much about the Rogues before they left Aiur, so we don't know how much tech advance they've seen. (The Corsair design could be hundreds of years old...)
 

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Old 03-13-2007
 
#58
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

AK47 is a better gun than an M16 in more than "some" ways.

I don't quite understand how the Khala can slow down technology. If anything it should speed it up because they are able to connect their thoughts and stuff.
 
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Old 03-14-2007
 
#59
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

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Originally Posted by Janne View Post
AK47 is a better gun than an M16 in more than "some" ways.
The M16 has better range, better armor penetration, and can fire 3-round bursts (rather than 5; 3 is superior because any bullets past two or three are generally wasted). The AK47 could probably be dipped in molasses and still not need maintenance and can fire on autofire, making it suitable for covering fire. It's also slightly deadlier, but that runs counter to the "wound enemy troops" concept.

Americans troops sometimes use AK47s in Iraq because the troops they face are unarmored (which removes the M16's primary killing advantage) and because desert nations are gritty and so gunk up the guns.

Quote:
I don't quite understand how the Khala can slow down technology. If anything it should speed it up because they are able to connect their thoughts and stuff.
Except the whole "you're not allowed to invent new things in order to keep your ego in check" concept.
 
 

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Old 03-14-2007
 
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Default Re: Human Nationalism

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Originally Posted by UED_Marine View Post
Your understanding of perfect is flawed. Perfect does not mean "indestructible", indestructible means indestructible. You seem to be confusing the two.

Perfect may not exist, but we use perfect in ways that mean "with maximum efficiency" or "maximum clarity".

So quit with the silly "Perfect isn't perfect because its indestructible" nonsense.
The problem is nothing can be perfect, no matter how advanced it will be flawed in some way.
 
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