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Old 06-01-2007
 
#1
United States Zyfiel
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Default Are those ramps huge?

Or is it me?

I'd hate the see the narrow choke point cliffs go the way of the dinosaur. I love lost temple because of it's extraordinarily well positioned choke points, but if all ramps in SC2 are like the one shown here then I fear the power of swarm tactics. Too many units seem to be able to scramble up that cliff-face at once, meaning that you'll need to tank much more damage than before.

Naturally I realize that this is just one doodad on one tileset, but as it's all I have to go off of, it's fair to question it. Any thoughts?
 
 

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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

I don't really think it matters. Ramp choak points like that are a thing of the past, what with collussus and reapers and stalkers completely ignoring cliffs. The only useful choak points now are narrow gaps of terrain surrounded by water/space/magma.
 
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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

Well, it does matter. I mean, the whole Terran drawbridge is based on the size of the choke. On that, it'd take, oh, call it four depots and a 'rax to close it off.

But, yeah, it does seem like there will be wider ramps and bridges in SC2, if only to circumvent the pathing issues that occured with some of the narrow maps (mass dragoons on LT... *shudder*). Sorry, but chokes are going to be a bit less critical.
 

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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

I'm not too worried about it. SC2 will have a map editor and you will see a Temple in no time if Bliz doesn't already have it.

Also, ramps and cliffs will still matter. As far as Reapers Stalkers and Collussus going over cliffs, just because there were Overloards, Shuttles and Dropships and the air units in SC1, did that take the cliff aspect out? No. It will be an added thing, but bliz knows cliffs are important, so it will be a factor.

Also, think. Any single unit in SC is one dimensional, for the most part. And any single unit can be countered, and killed easily. So if a bunch of reapers are flying over your cliffs, you should be able to squash it, as long as you see it coming, correct?
 
 

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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

I think that they are the same size because the 2D StarCraft squished it some; however, the ramps are bigger in functionality.
 



 

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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

Incorrect AdroiT. Let me break it down for you, G.

The only reason to have shuttles, dropships, and overlord transport was to move ground units from one terrain level to the other because an obstacle previously prevented it - cliff, choak point, ramp, etc. With the inclusion of ground units who can reach new heights avoiding those obstacles, it has made shuttles and overlord transport completely obsolite. Thus, their abilities have been given to new units who do a better job than just simple air transport - the phase prism and the nydus worm. I cannot speculate on terran as they still have dropships, but reapers are meant to be harrassers, like vultures were, and they seem to do their job very well. The new IK abilities, phase prism, and nydus worm completely alter SC1 standard base organization and defence, and once they are researched make choak points obsolite.
 
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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

Did you notice that the Brood War terrain has bigger ramps? That was deliberate. Blizzard wants bigger ramps, but you can still choke them.
 
 

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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

They can add gigantic ramps. I'm willing to bet in natural-terrain (jungle, ice) you'll be able to create HUGE ramps (like ramps surrounding an entire plateau.)
 
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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
Incorrect AdroiT. Let me break it down for you, G.

The only reason to have shuttles, dropships, and overlord transport was to move ground units from one terrain level to the other because an obstacle previously prevented it - cliff, choak point, ramp, etc. With the inclusion of ground units who can reach new heights avoiding those obstacles, it has made shuttles and overlord transport completely obsolite. Thus, their abilities have been given to new units who do a better job than just simple air transport - the phase prism and the nydus worm. I cannot speculate on terran as they still have dropships, but reapers are meant to be harrassers, like vultures were, and they seem to do their job very well. The new IK abilities, phase prism, and nydus worm completely alter SC1 standard base organization and defence, and once they are researched make choak points obsolite.
Not completely, maybe now they are less important then in SC1 but the drop strategy is still fundamental in SC2. If you want to surprise the enemy you will still use the Phase Prism/Dropship/Overlord(?) to carry powerfull or strategic units in his base.

Anyway the IK system will give to the game new strategic life to the game.
 
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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

Well, what about terrain that is 2 tiers high? The collosus and reapers can only go up 1 level at a time right? What if there are maps where you just go straight up 2 tiers of terrain to your base - while maybe having expos up only 1 terrain level?

I wouldnt worry about the size of the ramps. It's not like there gona be bigger for your base and smaller for your oppenents.
 
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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

Reapers have pistols which dont seem like a big problem to counter if they come into your base. Colossus only appeared to be effective against mass tiny units so a couple heavy land units like tanks or any air units could easily counter them. So there will still be a need for overlords and transports to move the more powerful and effective land units into a bass such as hydralisks, tanks, ect..
 
 

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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

I really think that there will be different sized ramps. They seem to be working on doodads and scenery a lot.
 
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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

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Originally Posted by rushz0rz View Post
I really think that there will be different sized ramps. They seem to be working on doodads and scenery a lot.
yep we aren't stuck with 2D sprites for ramps anymore... they will be as large as you want to make them, and I'm sure blizzard just wanted to show a good ling swarm up a ramp at a terran base.
 
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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

ramps and choke points will be a factor. Blizz isn't just going to change the fundamentals of how we play the game. Like XOD said and like I said, if one unit (reaper, stalker/collussus) comes over a cliff, there will be a counter for such a one dimensional attack. So it won't be the end of the world. The phase prism will be like a drop ship, not much difference.

You'll need cannnos/turrets/sunkens/spores in the back of your base, thats all.
 
 

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Old 06-01-2007
 
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Default Re: Are those ramps huge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rushz0rz View Post
I really think that there will be different sized ramps. They seem to be working on doodads and scenery a lot.
It shames me to admit, I didn't pay attention to the ramp sizes in Warcraft III. Did they come in different sizes?
 
 

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